It is true that we must get on thr right road. The Qur'an claims it is the same as the former scriptures, but here is what they say:
18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
Thank you for such a great question. This is one of the areas that Muslims often use as propaganda against Christianity which is easily understood.
The Qur'an says in Surah 3, ayah 7 "In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical."
So too the Bible has some verses which are basic and foundational, others which are allegorical. In the passage you mention, Ephraim is referred to as a tribe, not the individual. When referring to an entire nation, or tribe, as God's son, God is referring to several things. Primarily, all of us, in one sense, are children of God. He created us. Of course, we are only adopted. We aren't His one and only Son who came into the world to seek and to save that which was lost.
This one and only Son, (in Greek: monogenes), which means uniquely begotten. Begotten has a distinct meaning that doesn't translate over well to English. Perhaps the closest word in English is "existed". The word means to become, to happen, to exist. In other words, Jesus "happened" or "existed" distinctly from everything else.
Again, in choosing "which verse to believe" we must decide when passages refer to tribes, or to Jesus, which verse is allegorical, and which is foundational. I will let you decide.
I will decide what is logical and make sense that is Jesus was also said the same way as Ephraim. To me Adam is more begotten then Jesus because Jesus was born from a women and Adam was born with man or women.
See, that is the problem with Islamic propaganda. Jesus was not referred to the same way as Ephraim. Ephraim, the individual, was never called God's son. Jesus was. Ephraim, the tribe, was. I am sorry you can't see the difference.
In the Qur'an, it makes references to Allah's hands. Therefore, will you also choose to believe Allah is man, because after all, the Qur'an says he has hands? Or will you distinguish between allegorical and direct passages. You are correct, it is your choice.
Robert first lets come to straight points, which language was bible written in? Who composed them and said this is bible? OK! I know you will start by changing the topic by bringing your pointing useless points of Quran which you have no knowledge about if you really want to start good conversation then answer my questions in simple manner and don't compare with other books ok. Let go on.
Thanks again for such a great question. I am glad we can move on after settling this issue of allegorical biblical passages Muslims misinterpret. As your per your request, we will change topics.
The Bible is written partly in Hebrew, partly in Aramaic, and partly in Greek. It was composed by God, and confirmed and cofified by the Holy Spirit. If you are interested in how God accomplished this through his followers, I would be more than happy to discuss that with you.
First of you made it very clear your hate towards Islam is beyond any word but that has nothing to with me so, if you want to stick to that be my guest.
OK! good to know that bible was written in three different languages now tell me who wrote in what language please.
Yes I am more interested in learning how God accomplished this through his followers by the way only facts please and not your believes. Thanks.
First, I have a great deal of love towards Muslims. I wouldn't spend all this time here helping Muslims see truth if I didn't care abou tthem greatly.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, with a small section of Aramaic. The New Testament was written in Greek. We can talk about individual humans who God used as the instrument to write an individual book if you so choose.
More importanlty is how the Holy Spirit operates within those who believe. I would love to share this with you, but I am not sure what you mean by "fact". To help me better answer your question, tell me what you mean by this word.
For example, do you consider it a "fact" that Muhammad was spoken to by Gabriel? If so, why? Again, this will help me answer your question to your specifications.
The sentense about your love for Muslims is very funny, I like your sense of humor and the good way of putting a lie into political answer but anyway like said before I don't care because from your writings I can learn a lot about you.
I guess you don't understand english very well because if you would have understood you won't have given your example because I made it very clear i don't want you to compare me with any book or religion and if you want to do that you are making more mess then anything else so please stop doing that.
"The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, with a small section of Aramaic." OK! thanks for the info but where are you getting this information and how can I see what you are saying is for fact?
"The New Testament was written in Greek." Again need proof please.
Yes! please talk about individual humans who God used as the instrument to write an individual book, please don't ask me that again because you have already asked me that couple of times and you just wasting my time. If you have names please provide and no I am not asking holy spirit but instead names of individual human beings and from what part of the world they are from
Robby, don't waste you time because I have been following Robert Sievers for long time, he is person who has been brain washed and hates Islam from bottom of his heart. Not only that he has no knowledge of bible but he claims to, if he is true to himself he will wake up on day and realize that he is wasting his time and others time. He claims to know bible from every direction but when Abdullah challenged him on history of bible he was lost, from that day on i have seen his true picture and ignorance of Christianity and Islam. He claims to know Greek but don't know a thing about it not only that he leaves in NC and claims to stay other places, that shows what big liar he is. I have so much to say about him and what he does but I don't want to waste time, by the way he is very bad with coding things because even in that he doesn't do good job :). Sorry Robert but I know you good and hope you will change one day.
I apologize for the long delay in answering your request.
You want "proof" and "facts", but since I don't know exactly what you mean by that, I am not sure I can ever answer to your satisfaction. For example, if by "fact" you want a video recording of the original Biblical transcription from 2,000 years ago, I cannot provide it.
What I can tell you is this:
1. We have original manuscripts from within the lifetimes of the original human NT copyists.
2. You can go to a library and check out a Greek NT that has the original words in the original language.
3. No church father ever makes mention of a different language used for created the New Testament.
4. All Biblical references to items that can be checked with facts, such as locations and names, have been shown, through archeology, to be 100% correct.
Since you don't want to know about how the Holy Spirit operates, I will have to leave it at this.
13 comments:
It is true that we must get on thr right road. The Qur'an claims it is the same as the former scriptures, but here is what they say:
18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
Which verse should I believe
Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."
So Ephraim is firstborn and Jesus is second or Ephraim is, what I am confused like all other christians
Can you explain me what begotten means?
Thank you for such a great question. This is one of the areas that Muslims often use as propaganda against Christianity which is easily understood.
The Qur'an says in Surah 3, ayah 7 "In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical."
So too the Bible has some verses which are basic and foundational, others which are allegorical. In the passage you mention, Ephraim is referred to as a tribe, not the individual. When referring to an entire nation, or tribe, as God's son, God is referring to several things. Primarily, all of us, in one sense, are children of God. He created us. Of course, we are only adopted. We aren't His one and only Son who came into the world to seek and to save that which was lost.
This one and only Son, (in Greek: monogenes), which means uniquely begotten. Begotten has a distinct meaning that doesn't translate over well to English. Perhaps the closest word in English is "existed". The word means to become, to happen, to exist. In other words, Jesus "happened" or "existed" distinctly from everything else.
Again, in choosing "which verse to believe" we must decide when passages refer to tribes, or to Jesus, which verse is allegorical, and which is foundational. I will let you decide.
I will decide what is logical and make sense that is Jesus was also said the same way as Ephraim. To me Adam is more begotten then Jesus because Jesus was born from a women and Adam was born with man or women.
robby,
See, that is the problem with Islamic propaganda. Jesus was not referred to the same way as Ephraim. Ephraim, the individual, was never called God's son. Jesus was. Ephraim, the tribe, was. I am sorry you can't see the difference.
In the Qur'an, it makes references to Allah's hands. Therefore, will you also choose to believe Allah is man, because after all, the Qur'an says he has hands? Or will you distinguish between allegorical and direct passages. You are correct, it is your choice.
Robert first lets come to straight points, which language was bible written in? Who composed them and said this is bible? OK! I know you will start by changing the topic by bringing your pointing useless points of Quran which you have no knowledge about if you really want to start good conversation then answer my questions in simple manner and don't compare with other books ok. Let go on.
robbby,
Thanks again for such a great question. I am glad we can move on after settling this issue of allegorical biblical passages Muslims misinterpret. As your per your request, we will change topics.
The Bible is written partly in Hebrew, partly in Aramaic, and partly in Greek. It was composed by God, and confirmed and cofified by the Holy Spirit. If you are interested in how God accomplished this through his followers, I would be more than happy to discuss that with you.
salam alaikum
First of you made it very clear your hate towards Islam is beyond any word but that has nothing to with me so, if you want to stick to that be my guest.
OK! good to know that bible was written in three different languages now tell me who wrote in what language please.
Yes I am more interested in learning how God accomplished this through his followers by the way only facts please and not your believes. Thanks.
First, I have a great deal of love towards Muslims. I wouldn't spend all this time here helping Muslims see truth if I didn't care abou tthem greatly.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, with a small section of Aramaic. The New Testament was written in Greek. We can talk about individual humans who God used as the instrument to write an individual book if you so choose.
More importanlty is how the Holy Spirit operates within those who believe. I would love to share this with you, but I am not sure what you mean by "fact". To help me better answer your question, tell me what you mean by this word.
For example, do you consider it a "fact" that Muhammad was spoken to by Gabriel? If so, why? Again, this will help me answer your question to your specifications.
The sentense about your love for Muslims is very funny, I like your sense of humor and the good way of putting a lie into political answer but anyway like said before I don't care because from your writings I can learn a lot about you.
I guess you don't understand english very well because if you would have understood you won't have given your example because I made it very clear i don't want you to compare me with any book or religion and if you want to do that you are making more mess then anything else so please stop doing that.
"The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, with a small section of Aramaic." OK! thanks for the info but where are you getting this information and how can I see what you are saying is for fact?
"The New Testament was written in Greek." Again need proof please.
Yes! please talk about individual humans who God used as the instrument to write an individual book, please don't ask me that again because you have already asked me that couple of times and you just wasting my time. If you have names please provide and no I am not asking holy spirit but instead names of individual human beings and from what part of the world they are from
Robby, don't waste you time because I have been following Robert Sievers for long time, he is person who has been brain washed and hates Islam from bottom of his heart. Not only that he has no knowledge of bible but he claims to, if he is true to himself he will wake up on day and realize that he is wasting his time and others time. He claims to know bible from every direction but when Abdullah challenged him on history of bible he was lost, from that day on i have seen his true picture and ignorance of Christianity and Islam. He claims to know Greek but don't know a thing about it not only that he leaves in NC and claims to stay other places, that shows what big liar he is. I have so much to say about him and what he does but I don't want to waste time, by the way he is very bad with coding things because even in that he doesn't do good job :). Sorry Robert but I know you good and hope you will change one day.
Thanks Robert S, but lets give him a chance even though I am afraid he will proof you right.
robby,
I apologize for the long delay in answering your request.
You want "proof" and "facts", but since I don't know exactly what you mean by that, I am not sure I can ever answer to your satisfaction. For example, if by "fact" you want a video recording of the original Biblical transcription from 2,000 years ago, I cannot provide it.
What I can tell you is this:
1. We have original manuscripts from within the lifetimes of the original human NT copyists.
2. You can go to a library and check out a Greek NT that has the original words in the original language.
3. No church father ever makes mention of a different language used for created the New Testament.
4. All Biblical references to items that can be checked with facts, such as locations and names, have been shown, through archeology, to be 100% correct.
Since you don't want to know about how the Holy Spirit operates, I will have to leave it at this.
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